Talk:Mythurgy

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The image is witchcraft. Turning a fire into a tempest, as did Milton, is the work of a wizard. Changing the moon into a fish, a moon, a comet - as Rosetti did, falling into error even before Lugones - is a lesser trick. There is someone superior to the trickster or the wizard. I am speaking of a demigod, an angel, whose works alter the world. To add new provinces to Being, to envision cities and spaces of a hallucinatory reality, is a heroic adventure.

Formative Influences

  • Cathy:
  • Eli:
  • Kana: Kana has deepened and widened Liz's understanding of anime and is her best friend. Their paradigms are very similar as Orphan paradigms go, and with the formation of the new club will surely lead to great magickal achievements.
  • Mari:
  • Proteus: Proteus' main influence on Liz has been reinforcing her moral centre through the rush of power. However, now that he is realising his nature as a fellow Umbrood Lord, there will surely be much more to learn.
  • Shiragon:
  • Taihu: Taihu reminded Liz of the importance of her mundane connections, and ultimately helped her make her decision to pursue unification of the first and second worlds.
  • Westin: (Entropy) Liz has interpreted Westin's philosophy through the frame of story arcs and heroism. She believes that there is a universal justice at work that will in the long run reward good, punish evil, and lead heroes to triumph over villains. Moreover she believes that she is one of the heroes with a responsibility to do so. Appropriately, this most directly informs her understanding of the Entropy sphere.

Canon

  • The Technocracy denies the truth in stories, and tries to divide the world into rigid cells of 'true' and 'false'.
  • Even the ideas dismissed as 'false' they further divide into the true and false stories, that may or may not be told, though 'canon policies'.
  • This is nothing less than an attempt to control human imagination itself.
  • The concept of 'canon' is base technocratic tyranny. Reject all canon policies and absolutely do not create any yourself.

On Marauders and Philosophical Differences

<Eli_Lorentz> "CROSSDOWN? Is that some Union construct?"
<Kana> "No, it's a Reality Marble."
<Liz> "CROSSDOWN is a space fortress from the 31st century."


<IXJac> "You are surprised that I have detected you? Do not be. After you docked, I had Mr. Vern place a tracking device on your vessel."
<IXJac> Liz remembers Mike Vern. The conspiracy nut who abducted her
<Liz> "Ohhh! He's one of the marauders!"
<Liz> "He's saving the world from alien invasion."

Non-Canon Rambling

Ethics

  • You're writing a story, but the story is real. Uphold good endings and avoid bad ideas.
  • A story is bigger than any one idea. Don't let one take over.
  • An idea is bigger than any one story. Don't try to stop it spreading to others.
  • Acknowledge where your ideas came from. Remember where your story started.
  • For stories and mages (and everyone else), rules are just guidelines.

Theory

  • The first principle (and tenth sphere) is imagination. It is actualised by inspiration.
  • Magic is, generalised, fantastical action. It is action that is not supposed to work, but does work because the author writes it so and her imagination overrides mundanity. That's why it's harmed by rejection by sleepers - they decry the story you tell as 'false' and insist that it couldn't possibly happen and you should do your homework instead.
  • The 'science' of the technocracy is based on a rejection of the fantastical by the weaver of fantasy herself. This is obviously damaging and unsustainable. Etherites claim the mantle of science, but have clearly rediscovered the fantastic and just failed to update their terminology. What they produce might be better termed magitech.

Cosmology

  • The Umbra is the collective imagination of human- and nonhumankind.
  • The Dreaming is the heart and source of the umbra.
  • The Gauntlet is artificial, created by fear and reinforced by apathy. When humans were taught to reject the fantastic and disbelieve in heroes, they made a bubble of percieved safety and pushed their dreams outside of it.
  • The Horizon is the limits of imagination. Some things Outside are things never imagined by humanity. Others are things once imagined, but mass-rejected from the scope of thought. Tread carefully.

Method

  • Liz cannot (yet) summon concepts from pure imagination into the exterior world. An image is required, because an image represents a story, and the story is real there and can be made real here with the right thinking.
  • The image must be presented to the world to manifest. Summoning from a concealed image is much harder.
  • An image need not be a picture on a card, though this is a very convenient method.
  • It might be a costume worn, or a piece of paraphanelia that tells and inspires a story in the mind of the viewer. This is the basis of Liz's mikology.
  • It might even be words, though it is generally accepted that at least a thousand words are needed to provide sufficient definition without support from other media.
  • Reinforcement can give the story definition and aid in bringing it into the mundane world. Standard reinforcement methods are in-character actions and narrative speech. By performing an authentic-looking shinto ritual and observing Japanese formalities, Liz can bring more spiritual powers of the miko into being. By narrating her own actions as part of a story, she can make performing magic with those actions easier.

Tradition Connections

  • Akashic Brotherhood: The world is an illusion? Maybe so, in fact definitely so. But Akashics sometimes forget, illusions are important. Watch this space for Jnani and China influence.
  • Celestial Chorus: Liz does not believe in a supreme being. However, in her more philosophical moods, she wonders if the grand meta-story of the universe might not be the work of a single great Author. Typically this is dismissed, as the story is clearly collaborative.
  • Cult of Ecstacy: Liz has a weakness for narcotics but sees no real connection here.
  • Dreamspeakers: In another life, Liz would have been a Baruti.
  • Euthanatos: The Euthanatos are a poor fit for Liz at first glance, but there is a fundamental link between them in that Liz may also believe in karma and a universal fate.
  • Order of Hermes: Godforms = cosplay, ala Kana.
  • Sons of Ether: This is so cool but all that maths is still boring.
  • Verbena: Ewwww.
  • Virtual Adepts: Liz doesn't computer very much.

Unanswered Questions

  • What does 'real' mean when you say stories are real? 'Real' = 'physical' is a techno construct, they only believe in what they can measure. But what other sorts of reality are there?
  • Is it moral to write a story where bad things happen? If so, how immoral?

Notes

Jnani Shinto

[01:47] <IXJac> Well, Shiragon is a Jnani Shinto Shaman
[01:47] <IXJac> the Jnani sect believe the mind, body and spirit are one, and in fact the physical and spirit worlds are identical across the Tapestry
[01:48] <IXJac> They also beleive size is an illusion, and everything represents everything else in some way
[01:48] <IXJac> So the smallest thing affects the largest, and vice versa
[01:50] <IXJac> Their magical style is elaborate magickal mandalas, writings, invoking celestial beings, and the usual physical rituals and martial arts
[01:50] <IXJac> Basically anime shamans. ;)
[01:51] <IXJac> They also have a reputation of being hard on new students, and continually trying to drive them away.

[04:14] <IXJac> Jnani believe that there's really no difference between the "self" and the universe, and that extends to the spirit world
[04:15] <IXJac> So since the two are interrelated, you can affect one with the other and vice versa
[04:16] <IXJac> Visualize something internally, and you can make it external
[04:16] <IXJac> That sort of thing
[04:18] <IXJac> Anyway, the Jnani have a much more freewheeling approach to spirits than the Akashic mainstream
[04:18] <IXJac> Which is pretty hierarchial with the Celestial Bureacracy and all

[04:24] <Peel> where does a fictional world exist? in the mind of the author or reader
[04:24] <Peel> now declare that world to be a real place, and moreover declare the 'real' world to be just another example of such a place
[04:24] <Peel> Liz already has such an experience
[04:24] <Peel> The Palace is her dream
[04:25] <Peel> but it's also a concrete place
[04:25] <Peel> that can be physically interacted with
[04:25] <Peel> she can engage with Jnani metaphysics in her paradigm

Arete 4 Quest

  • Return to your family and reconcile your actions with their existence.

[07:29] <@IXJac> Liz is mentally exhausted, and returns home to dream of laser armed cockroaches, and spiders in tophats with huge cuban cigars and pinstriped waistcoats. Liz and her army of cockroaches thrash the spiders soundly, and Liz stands triumphant on their mountain of stolen (repossessed!) lucre.
[07:30] <@IXJac> "Hrrmp." Says a figure just out of her view, A shadow of a tall man, and feathers falling over her. "One small victory, and they think they've won the war. Children these days."
[07:31] <@IXJac> There is silence. "Small victory! Hooorray!??" cheers one of the tiny laser armed cockroaches, before falling silent and cringing under the shadow's glare.
[07:33] <@IXJac> "Still, you step forward on the path of your anscenstors. That is. . . something." Says the shadow. "But don't let it get tou your head!" The feathers, which might be a headdress ruffle, and and the figure turns and vanishes as Liz wakes with a start. . . to Arete 4

Umbral Courts

[08:29] <IXJac> Liz is aware of the Umbral Court, and in fact knows there are three of them. An Eastern, a Western, and an Egyptian
[08:29] <IXJac> Or, if she learned of it from Cathy, an Egyptian Court and then those two others
[08:29] <Peel> She got Umbrood Lore from Shiragon
[08:30] <Peel> So probably the Eastern Court and some gaijin trash
[08:31] <IXJac> There's also a Sky Lodge of more primordial spirits, which considers itself the oldest (and best!) Umbral Court
[08:32] <IXJac> There's some crossover between the courts, as some concepts are universal, and many umbrood sit on one or more courts in different aspects
[08:32] <IXJac> And then have fun arguing with themselves
[08:33] <IXJac> There's also rumours of a Higher Court, where all the really big leagues go to play
[08:34] <IXJac> The Eastern Court is the governing body of the Celestial Bureaucracy, under the August Personage of Jade
[08:36] <IXJac> The Western Court is currently using a neo-victorian setup, which it adopted with the rise of the technocracy, perhaps as a joke aimed at Queen Victoria
[08:36] <IXJac> It hasn't got around to morphing itself into the US Senate yet
[08:38] <IXJac> Anyway, there's also a High Court, which is where the big concepts meet
[08:38] <IXJac> Which transcends the various regional lines
[08:38] <IXJac> But it doesn't always meet, and is pretty esoteric
[08:40] <Norseman> But I got to wonder
[08:40] <Norseman> Why is there still an Egyptian Court?
[08:40] <IXJac> because they're stuffy and won't let anyone else in
[08:44] <IXJac> Well, Proteus probably wants the High Court
[08:45] <IXJac> Which is where Serious Shit is actually discussed
[08:45] <IXJac> But you'd have to be pretty powerful before Death or The Sun takes you seriously there
[08:47] <IXJac> Well, you'd want to start off in the Western Court I think
[08:48] <IXJac> Not as formalized as the Eastern, as exclusionary as the Egyptian, and probably a bit more form than the Great Sky Lodge
[08:50] <IXJac> Anyway, Shiragon, being an Akashic, would probably tell you to stay away from the courts. Men have no business in the games of Gods, little to gain, and much to lose by being enmeshed in their plots
[08:52] <Peel> Pfft. That's what they say about casinos.
[08:52] <Peel> "The house always wins."
[08:53] <Peel> Not when it loses $52K!
[08:52] <IXJac> I can't remember what the ruling body of the Celestial Bureaucracy is called. Jade something or other probably
[08:54] <IXJac> Council of Jade probably
[08:54] <IXJac> Where all the senior gods who push around all the littler gods meet to have tea - and push little gods around some more
[08:55] <Shrike> actually doesn't Cara have a bit of a rep in the western court now? Or would it be eastern?
[08:57] <Peel> Quaesitors have some kind of Umbral court standing I thought
[08:57] <IXJac> Hermetics and Dreamspeakers, yes
[08:57] <IXJac> And Taftani, of a sort
[08:57] <IXJac> But that's more fear
[08:58] <IXJac> Since part of the Taftani mission statement is "make all Spirits my bitch"
[08:59] <IXJac> Anyway, the Umbral Court is a strange and crazy thing, and it's going to be. . . fun. . . if you guys go there.
[09:01] <IXJac> The Egyptian Court has a LOT of rules. Rules Liz certainly wouldn't follow
[09:02] <IXJac> Note that the Western Court just calls itself the Umbral Court
[09:02] <IXJac> The Eastern actually calls itself the Council of Jade
[09:03] <IXJac> The Primodial the Great Sky Lodge
[09:03] <IXJac> And the Egyptian court probably something suitably Egyptian
[09:03] <IXJac> Like the Halls of Ma'at, or whatever
[09:20] <Shrike> I wonder what sort of stuff they discuss
[09:22] <IXJac> Well, since you're hearing this from Shiragon, all you'd know are the issues before the Council of Jade
[09:22] <IXJac> The big one being the Yama Kings trying to upset the treaty between men and the August Personage of Jade
[09:24] <IXJac> The Yama Kings argue that humans reneged on the deal anyway, so they should be free to come back and harvest souls
[09:27] <IXJac> Well, Liz is Lord over a den of gamblers
[09:27] <IXJac> So HARDLY the most reputable Lord
[09:28] <IXJac> Anyway, Shiragon would also have made clear that the Umbrood have very little power in the mortal world, but some of them covet it, and will do a great deal to win mortal pawns to do their bidding
[09:30] <Peel> Well if they covet it that much
[09:30] <Peel> That means leverage
[09:31] <IXJac> That probably wasn't the lesson Shiragon was hoping you'd take away from that
[09:31] <Shrike> :D
[09:31] <Peel> >:D
[09:31] <Shrike> Shiragon, for all her wisdom, doesn't get Liz