Sphere 2 Transgenics/Paths Analysis - Revision history

MJ12 Commando: /* Transgene/Baseline Comparison */

2011-05-11T18:01:20Z

Transgene/Baseline Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:01, 11 May 2011
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	This means to break even against industrograd with the triple +2 caste, you need 15 dots of population, or 90 million people. However, this does not actually factor in combat bonuses. To break even against peopleistan (max pop) with the triple +2, it is much simpler, since each point of pop is worth 0.3 more, needing a "mere" 60 million people for the caste system.		This means to break even against industrograd with the triple +2 caste, you need 15 dots of population, or 90 million people. However, this does not actually factor in combat bonuses. To break even against peopleistan (max pop) with the triple +2, it is much simpler, since each point of pop is worth 0.3 more, needing a "mere" 60 million people for the caste system.

	Consider for a moment that 12.5 dots of population can be relatively easily achieved by a ZOCU power, which essentially means a net loss of all of 0.5 of a plus, which is presumably made up by the bonuses of having transgenics in combat, and the result is incredibly efficient. The effective +2 GTL means that even a generalist (2/2/2/0) population at 100% only is out 4.5 pluses economically (and yes, it is possible to get 75 million people with 160 or so transgene, I've done it).		Consider for a moment that 12.5 dots of population can be relatively easily achieved by a ZOCU power, which essentially means a net loss of all of 0.5 of a plus, which is presumably made up by the bonuses of having transgenics in combat, and the result is incredibly efficient. The effective +2 GTL means that even a generalist (2/2/2/0) population at 100% only is out 4.5 pluses economically while gaining significant combat bonuses from their supersoldiers (and yes, it is possible to get 75 million people with 160 or so transgene, I've done it).

	As GTL increases and as the level of the transgenics is reduced, the relative breakeven point lowers.		As GTL increases and as the level of the transgenics is reduced, the relative breakeven point lowers.

MJ12 Commando: /* Transgene/Baseline Comparison */

2011-05-11T18:00:58Z

Transgene/Baseline Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:00, 11 May 2011
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	This means to break even against industrograd with the triple +2 caste, you need 15 dots of population, or 90 million people. However, this does not actually factor in combat bonuses. To break even against peopleistan (max pop) with the triple +2, it is much simpler, since each point of pop is worth 0.3 more, needing a "mere" 60 million people for the caste system.		This means to break even against industrograd with the triple +2 caste, you need 15 dots of population, or 90 million people. However, this does not actually factor in combat bonuses. To break even against peopleistan (max pop) with the triple +2, it is much simpler, since each point of pop is worth 0.3 more, needing a "mere" 60 million people for the caste system.

			Consider for a moment that 12.5 dots of population can be relatively easily achieved by a ZOCU power, which essentially means a net loss of all of 0.5 of a plus, which is presumably made up by the bonuses of having transgenics in combat, and the result is incredibly efficient. The effective +2 GTL means that even a generalist (2/2/2/0) population at 100% only is out 4.5 pluses economically (and yes, it is possible to get 75 million people with 160 or so transgene, I've done it).

	As GTL increases and as the level of the transgenics is reduced, the relative breakeven point lowers.		As GTL increases and as the level of the transgenics is reduced, the relative breakeven point lowers.

MJ12 Commando: /* Optimization */

2011-05-11T17:58:12Z

Optimization

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:58, 11 May 2011
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	*Minimal population, baseline power: This gets you the most industry but lacks the combat bonuses of transgenic soldiers. However, this provides a significant ''flexibility'' advantage, because there is a greater variety of paths which grant production and many more options to shuffle production around (chaotic events primarily).		*Minimal population, baseline power: This gets you the most industry but lacks the combat bonuses of transgenic soldiers. However, this provides a significant ''flexibility'' advantage, because there is a greater variety of paths which grant production and many more options to shuffle production around (chaotic events primarily).

	*High population, high transgenic power: The transgenic combat modifiers exist here, and high population + caste system can mostly make up for the ~~minor~~ loss of production. On the other hand, this also requires a significant buy-in (spending tech levels into transgenics, taking the +transgene options whenever available at flexibility cost), which can dissuade people taking this path. This is the ''most optimal'' method of achieving high production as a Magnate power. Ironically, this is also possibly the reason for all the high-transgene Core powers, as it is ''extremely easy'' to get high population as a Core power and only somewhat harder to get highish transgenics.		*High population, high transgenic power: The transgenic combat modifiers exist here, and high population + caste system can mostly make up for the loss of production. On the other hand, this also requires a significant buy-in (spending tech levels into transgenics, taking the +transgene options whenever available at flexibility cost), which can dissuade people taking this path. This is the ''most optimal'' method of achieving high production as a Magnate power. Ironically, this is also possibly the reason for all the high-transgene Core powers, as it is ''extremely easy'' to get high population as a Core power and only somewhat harder to get highish transgenics.

	All other sum paths are ''suboptimal'' and probably could do with a little bit of buffing. I suggest handing out, say, +1-10 SP for a power which doesn't fall under these two categories, depending on other factors.		All other sum paths are ''suboptimal'' and probably could do with a little bit of buffing. I suggest handing out, say, +1-10 SP for a power which doesn't fall under these two categories, depending on other factors.

MJ12 Commando: /* Transgene/Baseline Comparison */

2011-05-11T17:20:56Z

Transgene/Baseline Comparison

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:20, 11 May 2011
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	High transgenic powers therefore are best suited maximizing their population at all costs. More complex (i.e. non Austrian) levels of math will come later.		High transgenic powers therefore are best suited maximizing their population at all costs. More complex (i.e. non Austrian) levels of math will come later.

			===More Math===
			Assuming a +40/40/20 spread of CIP/PIP/W, for a total of 100% production, each population point gives a net bonus of 20P, or is equivalent to 1.2 dots of production. Similarly, assuming buying techs lower than your indices, each point of enhanced intellect gives roughly +1 GTL, or 0.5 pluses.

			This means that to break even against a baseline power spending their points into production instead of transgenics and population, it needs 5 dots of population for every dot of transgene.

			Using Caste System at +2 each (no socialization here), this costs 86 before transgenic bonuses (for a caste system) or 172 without a caste system. However, ZOCU can easily make -5 cost breaks from transgenic tech, reducing the cost of this to 56, or +3 transgene, using a caste system, and 152, or +8 transgene, for a non-caste system. The caste system's morale loss is made up by the effective +2 GTL, so will be disregarded.

			This means to break even against industrograd with the triple +2 caste, you need 15 dots of population, or 90 million people. However, this does not actually factor in combat bonuses. To break even against peopleistan (max pop) with the triple +2, it is much simpler, since each point of pop is worth 0.3 more, needing a "mere" 60 million people for the caste system.

			As GTL increases and as the level of the transgenics is reduced, the relative breakeven point lowers.

	==Minor Transgenics==		==Minor Transgenics==

Rask at 17:07, 11 May 2011

2011-05-11T17:07:53Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:07, 11 May 2011
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	All other sum paths are ''suboptimal'' and probably could do with a little bit of buffing. I suggest handing out, say, +1-10 SP for a power which doesn't fall under these two categories, depending on other factors.		All other sum paths are ''suboptimal'' and probably could do with a little bit of buffing. I suggest handing out, say, +1-10 SP for a power which doesn't fall under these two categories, depending on other factors.

			=Breaking the System=
			--[[User:Rask\|Rask]] 10:07, 11 May 2011 (PDT)
			==Free Stuff==
			With a TL of 25 in Transgenics, you get a cost break of 6 on your templates, making simple one-level stats cost 6-6 = 0 TGP points. Apply to 100% of population and enjoy a free +20% boost to population's PIP production.

			==Almost Free Stuff==
			With a TL of 25 in Transgenics, you get a cost break of 6 points per template. Make four templates with one level in a single different primary stat. The two simple templates cost 0 TGP, the two complex ones 1 TGP each. Apply each template to 25% of the population (total cost: 4 TGP)<br>
			Apply caste system and enjoy boost of +20% to population PIP, +20% to population CIP, +10% to population Wealth, +20% trade income, and all elite bonuses at first level.

			==Objectionable Math==
			Consider the following templates, applied to 25% of the population each in a caste system:<br>
			1/0/0/0<br>
			1/0/0/1 <br>
			1/1/0/0<br>
			1/0/1/0<br>

			Each one provides +20% pip (5 for level, x2 for 25% of population, boosted to x4 from caste system). The total pip boost is +80%, whereas enhancing 100% of the pop to +1 strength would only provide +20%

MJ12 Commando: /* Tentative Conclusions */

2011-05-11T16:48:14Z

Tentative Conclusions

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:48, 11 May 2011
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	*Minimal population, baseline power: This gets you the most industry but lacks the combat bonuses of transgenic soldiers. However, this provides a significant ''flexibility'' advantage, because there is a greater variety of paths which grant production and many more options to shuffle production around (chaotic events primarily).		*Minimal population, baseline power: This gets you the most industry but lacks the combat bonuses of transgenic soldiers. However, this provides a significant ''flexibility'' advantage, because there is a greater variety of paths which grant production and many more options to shuffle production around (chaotic events primarily).

	*High population, high transgenic power: The transgenic combat modifiers exist here, and high population + caste system can mostly make up for the minor loss of production. On the other hand, this also requires a significant buy-in (spending tech levels into transgenics, taking the +transgene options whenever available at flexibility cost), which can dissuade people taking this path. This is the ''most optimal'' method of achieving high production as a Magnate power.		*High population, high transgenic power: The transgenic combat modifiers exist here, and high population + caste system can mostly make up for the minor loss of production. On the other hand, this also requires a significant buy-in (spending tech levels into transgenics, taking the +transgene options whenever available at flexibility cost), which can dissuade people taking this path. This is the ''most optimal'' method of achieving high production as a Magnate power. Ironically, this is also possibly the reason for all the high-transgene Core powers, as it is ''extremely easy'' to get high population as a Core power and only somewhat harder to get highish transgenics.

	All other sum paths are ''suboptimal'' and probably could do with a little bit of buffing. I suggest handing out, say, +1-10 SP for a power which doesn't fall under these two categories, depending on other factors.		All other sum paths are ''suboptimal'' and probably could do with a little bit of buffing. I suggest handing out, say, +1-10 SP for a power which doesn't fall under these two categories, depending on other factors.

MJ12 Commando: /* Tentative Conclusions */

2011-05-11T16:44:40Z

Tentative Conclusions

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:44, 11 May 2011
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	=Tentative Conclusions=		=Tentative Conclusions=
			==Faction Specific Conclusions==

			*ZOCU and China already find it most efficient to increase population via SP to increase production versus buying CIP/PIP, even as a baseline power (+9 total production vs +8 per SP for ZOCU, +12 total production vs +12/10 per SP for China).

			*The Magnates find it hardest to hit the 10+ point where population is more valuable than production (needing a total of +100% population production from transgene). This seems to be working as intended, making Magnate transgenics relatively less valuable to make up for how cheap they are.

			==Optimization==
	The two most optimal industrial paths are these:		The two most optimal industrial paths are these:

MJ12 Commando: /* Initial Notes */

2011-05-11T16:44:22Z

Initial Notes

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:44, 11 May 2011
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	*Caste System roughly doubles the transgenic bonuses given to a power, meaning that you "only" need +17.5% production to make population the best overall buy for caste system.		*Caste System roughly doubles the transgenic bonuses given to a power, meaning that you "only" need +17.5% production to make population the best overall buy for caste system.

	*ZOCU and China already find it most efficient to increase population via SP to increase production versus buying CIP/PIP, even as a baseline power (+9 total production vs +8 per SP for ZOCU, +12 total production vs +12/10 per SP for China).

	*The Magnates find it hardest to hit the 10+ point where population is more valuable than production (needing a total of +100% population production from transgene). This seems to be working as intended, making Magnate transgenics relatively less valuable to make up for how cheap they are.

	=Assumptions=		=Assumptions=

MJ12 Commando: /* Maths */

2011-05-11T16:43:09Z

Maths

@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 =Maths=
-Will have to write some stuff here later.
+Note that CIP, PIP, and Wealth are signified by "P", for production.
 =Tentative Conclusions=

MJ12 Commando: /* Tentative Conclusions */

2011-05-11T16:33:29Z

Tentative Conclusions

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:33, 11 May 2011
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	The two most optimal industrial paths are these:		The two most optimal industrial paths are these:

	*Minimal population, baseline power: This gets you the most industry but lacks the combat bonuses of transgenic soldiers.		*Minimal population, baseline power: This gets you the most industry but lacks the combat bonuses of transgenic soldiers. However, this provides a significant ''flexibility'' advantage, because there is a greater variety of paths which grant production and many more options to shuffle production around (chaotic events primarily).

	*High population, high transgenic power: The transgenic combat modifiers exist here, and high population + caste system can mostly make up for the minor loss of production. On the other hand, this also requires a significant buy-in, which can dissuade people taking this path.		*High population, high transgenic power: The transgenic combat modifiers exist here, and high population + caste system can mostly make up for the minor loss of production. On the other hand, this also requires a significant buy-in (spending tech levels into transgenics, taking the +transgene options whenever available at flexibility cost), which can dissuade people taking this path. This is the ''most optimal'' method of achieving high production as a Magnate power.

	All other sum paths are ''suboptimal'' and probably could do with a little bit of buffing. I suggest handing out, say, +1-10 SP for a power which doesn't fall under these two categories, depending on other factors.		All other sum paths are ''suboptimal'' and probably could do with a little bit of buffing. I suggest handing out, say, +1-10 SP for a power which doesn't fall under these two categories, depending on other factors.